(no subject)

[vicarz]

More from "I don't know:" Marriage
Today's not important line of thought started when talking to a friend in the gym who I hadn't seen in ages (a girl from the original Gold's boxing club, washboard abs > age 40) was when she mentioned someone I know having long-term relationship problems with his girl, problems I didn't know about. She theorized that he was with her because he had been with her so long he didn't know what else to do, or feared the alternatives. This is a strong woman, but her note was that you never compromise and settle in a relationship. She hadn't, but noted that all of her friends who committed despite problems are all getting divorces (with and without kids). We debated a bit, and I don't know what the answer, or my answer, is on that subject. It's not important right now, but I've been noting recently that sometimes the difference between a relationship and not was simply deciding to commit and staying committed. Perhaps those that succeed are just the ones that try, and that those that keep seeking perfection just don't understand what a real commitment is. So, the converse is that if you just lay down a commitment, you're just begging for a much harder crash further down the road.

And I don't know, nor is it important in my life right now. Still curious.

Comments

[turbogrrl.livejournal.com]

There is committing despite problems, and committing despite Problems. Problems tend to be too much of a pre-existing strain when serious shit happens in a marriage... and serious shit always happens in a marriage, that's kind of the point.

And some things are problems for some people and Problems for others. Everyone has to be on the same page as to what is important to them and what they are willing to work for... and if you can't communicate before getting married, it's sure as shit not going to magically just happen afterwards. There is no telegraph service install as part of signing the marriage certificate.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I need to commit to ice cream, soonish. And stuff.

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

I know people who got married even though they weren't excited about it, and people who got married who were very excited about it, and both types have ended up divorced.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Yay, so many roads to failure!

[railwaymadness]

While it is important to be able to tell the difference between people being imperfect in the way that all humans are imperfect and people being imperfect in ways that make them Not Right For You, I don't think all divorces can be predicted from the outset. As time moves on, people do change. Nothing is guaranteed. Committing more does mean there is a risk of a "much harder crash further down the road". You just have to decide if the rewards are worth the risk.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

That's a hell of a ratio to try and predict.

[frontdoorangel.livejournal.com]

I think that a lot of relationships fail or thrive because of expectations. I have a friend who will probably be single for the rest of her life because her standards are higher than any mortal can reasonably fill. In a sense, yeah, good for her, but, it's a lonely freaking pedestal that she's put herself on. I used to love the "Lowered Expecatations" segment on MAD TV but, there is a little truth there...I think the most that anyone can hope for is to find someone like themselves. But, for people who are constantly cashing out on their relationships to find someone better or are looking for that perfect fit, well, obviously it depends on the individuals but, there might not ever be a perfect fit; that's how you get people who say that they've "settled" and that's just sad. There's a big difference between settling and making something work and realizing that you are human and so is your partner.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I also sing that song whenever I realize that for however hungry I get, that it's worth holding on to (realistic) standards. Every time I see a eharmony ad, every time someone tells me about craigslist, I hear "Lowered...ex-pec-tay-shuns" in my lil head.

Expectations, and reasonable forecasts of ranges of probabilities, can be communicated. Communication is another key.

[sparklypoof.livejournal.com]

just sayin', cuz you mentioned it:

my parents divorced over 8 years ago now. my dad started dating after a while, and signed up w/match.com. he met the insane woman who lived w/us for a year [and made our lives hell and all that] through that site. she's obviously long-gone now.

he signed up for eharmony, went on a few dates, and found the love of his divorced life. he's been happily married to my step-mom for 2 or 3 years now [I am bad and can't remember how long ago it was], and she's a wonderful woman.

'm just sayin'. eharmony = not insane people. match.com = insane people.

at least, in our experience. kay, done.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I disagree - sounds like a % play in each case. My issue is thinking that on-line, to me, may put you into a pool of people with less to offer who are more desperate. Sure there are some gems out there, but the ratio of gems to desperate people (who are desperate for a reason, in most cases) is far worse in on-line dating ads than just running around in real life. Lowered expectations isn't comparing one site to another - it's talking about the idea that you've given up and started trying really hard to meet someone instead of just letting it happen.

[sparklypoof.livejournal.com]

see, my dad hadn't dated in 20+ years. he hadn't expected to be dating again later in life - and those websites, while they may seem a lowered expectation arena to you, and I admit that is an angle to take on them - they're a relatively safe place for older adults to meet new people. my dad was lonely and looking for someone, sure - but I dont think by joining these sites he lowered his expectations. they were there as a tool for him to meet new people, and he could have not acted on any of the messages he got. he did go on a few dates that were not so spot-on, and he lucked out in finding the wonderful woman who is my step-mom.

I agree with you in that the gems to desperate people ratio is skewed in the desperate end of the spectrum, but that desperation could be born of not knowing how to date after being married for so long - it's not always the token loser trolling for dates.

it's talking about the idea that you've given up and started trying really hard to meet someone instead of just letting it happen.

but if you're nearing 50 and your home life has fallen apart after a divorce and you just want to meet someone to spend the next 50 years of your life with, wouldn't you rather seek them out actively through as many avenues as possible, vs. just waiting for "fate" or "chance" to bring you together?

[vicar.livejournal.com]

That makes sense - I guess for me, at my age and in my circumstances, it would be desperate (irrationally so) whereas were I 50 with kids the complications of life would be more understandable.

[pastor-saturn.livejournal.com]

it's talking about the idea that you've given up and started trying really hard to meet someone instead of just letting it happen.

What's wrong with trying? I don't mean "trying" like buying a vroom-vroom car and wearing inappropriately young clothing; I mean getting out there and making an effort. "Just letting it happen" works better at different times in one's life, but that old magic where our-eyes-lock-and-we-both-forget-what-we-were-going-to-say-and-we-crush-each-other-to-our-heaving-chests ain't gonna happen every time. Have a viable Plan B or C, I say. Just because you didn't trip and fall into a relationship doesn't make it less valid, magical, or special. Or difficult, for that matter.

Online dating specifically: I have some limited experience with it (eons ago). My feeling is that the anonymity of being online is attractive to all kinds of people, some simply because they're shy (like me) and others for less innocent reasons. It can certainly bring out the worst in people because there are no consequences if they act like a tool; they just move on to the next not-real person they're pretending to get to know.

But then there are plenty of very nice people who've met other very nice people online. You hear more tool stories, as much because people like hearing them a bit more than "happily ever after--so far" stories.

YMMV, of course.

[doc-quixote.livejournal.com]

After you get married, one of two things can happen: You can get divorced, or someone dies. Either way, it's a losing proposition.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

There is a beautiful scene in one of Vonnegut's books in which a perfectly matched couple faces an instant where one is about to plunge to their death - and the other calmly takes a small step to join them.

[freja999.livejournal.com]

My opinion: Don't get married if you think anything will change. You want to get married because you like what you have. Committment is more dependant on knowing yourself through and through, not necessarily the other person; You have to know what you are capable of, what you are willing to accept and not accept in another. You have to remember what's important and what isn't. Sticking to your guns and not compromising does not make a stronger person. That's just simply stubborn. Also, it is what is is, nothing more and nothing less; A towel on the floor should not be read as, he disrepects me and my space and the hard work I put into this house and he doesn't care about my feelings and every DAY I have to repeat myself about the damn towel!! It's just a towel on the floor. Pick it up if you don't want it there. He still Loves you despite the fact that he isn't always mindful of how you feel about a towel on the floor. You get to have him and all his loveable other ways, like how he shares his food with you, and how you can share the same inside jokes and how he brags about you to his friends. Compromise is an exercise in learning your true character. You will find out that being selfless has nothing to do with gestures or material things. You will learn what is truly important to you. Some people think they're looking for the right person. Usually, they're really looking for the right circumstance and hope that the person with those circumstance is also someone they can get along with, which is ok, just be honest with yourself that those circumstances are more important.

Then again I'm divorced, with two munchkims and in a limbo sorta singlehood. I married a student and divorced an attorney. I was engaged to a student with a PTSD disability rating and was left by a student with a PTSD disability rating, a man I still Love. And I've been told honestly by men that "if you didn't have kids..."

In a way, I guess I'm uncompromising as well. The heart and character of a person is not something I will ever compromise, that much I know about myself. If I find that, I can certainly find it in myself to pick up his towel.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I love that you started with the caveat: My opinion

I've seen things on the floor as disrespectful - wasn't sure until I found they kept their own residence immaculate while leaving mine filthy that I realized the compromise being made was mine alone. Compromise must be a two-way street.

Whew, I'm the first to say that circumstances and timing, are a large part of a relationship.

Kids are tough - I think many dream of making a family rather than having.

[have-inner-lady.livejournal.com]

I think both sides of what you've explained are true, even if they seem contradictory at first blush.

[cweaselle.livejournal.com]

I don't plan on getting married ever, but I've found the people who have the best relationship have their own lives beyond their spouse.