Real life replicates eljay

[vicarz]

I am an asshole - I'm your friend, the asshole.
I just got off the phone with a non blogging person, friend from years ago who I like and respect deeply. Unfortunately, she's probably fuming about what a management-sided asshole I am. I suspect in her mind I was "mean to her" when what she really wanted was empathy. In blog terms, she wanted me to comment hugs to her passive-aggressive post, but instead I left comments about flaws in her argument.

I know that if I've failed to communicate that I must accept some blame, and I do for I found myself getting impatient with her long stories of woe is her, but EGADS it's frustrating to want to help someone that just wants to do nothing productive about their situation. I tried to listen, but after 30 minutes of hearing all the bad ideas she had and incorrect legal conclusions regarding employment law I was frustrated myself. Never mind I'm at work and this motion isn't going to write itself.

Sigh. So I was listening to someone talk about how they sent nasty emails to their boss, bad idea I said, response was I didn't understand how she felt.
Worse response was I don't care if it was a bad idea, it felt good. So would drinking on the job.
I listened to all the mean things her boss did, and asked how often they occurred and who witnessed them, she felt I didn't understand what she was telling me or wasn't listening.
I asked when the comment(s) were made, and how long ago. That led to very unhappy pauses. Hint - an offhand comment to someone a year ago isn't going to make the judge leap out of their seat and slap your bitch-boss with their gavel - I didn't need to say it (and I wouldn't have said it).
I listened to her describe how it wasn't fair, I asked what grade level, title, and chain of supervision her "comparators" were - none were her same grade, title, chain of command.
And so on. I can't give legal advice, though I did recommend that she hit the EEOC.gov website because - and I'll tell this to ANYONE - their site is good and has fantastic Q&A sections. I can't guide her, but I did try to show her the weaknesses of her arguments without telling her.

She wasn't used to having anyone interrupt her story with questions, and the questions made it so obvious that her story didn't stand up to examination. I didn't lawyer her, unless to do so is equivalent to asking questions that make the person reflect and realize their rehearsed story doesn't hold water.

Maybe that is lawyering someone.

It was eljay in a phone conversation. I don't think she cut me off her f-list, but she's not happy with me in real life. I tried to re-tell her that I supported her and believed her, I paraphrased back to her what she was telling me, but that I didn't just go "Oh that sucks, I feel so sorry for you," seemed to be an insurmountable issue. After the last time she said I was devil's advocate "because I'm always defending mgt" (at least she realized I was devil's advocating her ass) and I didn't understand what it was like to be her gender/race...I said perhaps I don't, but I do know what it is like to be yelled at, threatened with performance action, threatened with discipline, doors slammed, talked about sideways and behind my back, called "faggot," "pussy," "little bitch," and the like; ripped on for whiteness, talked about how I'm going to hell because of my different/no religion; reassigned with the purpose of setting me up for failure...so if I don't know I'm not sure how you can convey that to me. Grr.

But I didn't fuck up and send nasty emails to my boss. I am finding the time to apply for other work, just like I did the last time things were bad. I did find the way to take all that anger and hurt to motivate my ass into taking ACTION. I know bitch-fests and sympathy are necessary, but she' been getting that for over 6 months.

I'm your friend the asshole. I won't trash you, I will try to deliver the message in the best possible way for you to hear it (I will not bitch slap you with legal arguments, ever), but I'm not just going to commiserate. If I see you doing wrong, I'll tell you. If you're hurting yourself, I'll tell you. I'll try to do it gently, but I'm not a friend to those who confuse loyalty with agreement.

Irony noted - I'm passive-aggressive eljay posting about someone who won't see this seeking affirmation for my 1-sided account of things.

However, while I'm venting my frustration and trying to face what I could have done better (which typing sometimes helps me see) I hope you can take a bit of learning from this - about yourself, or about interacting with me if I've pissed you off lately (can't think of anyone, but you never know).

Comments

[grymnir.livejournal.com]

For what it is worth, I've gone through this dynamic several times. Even if you go on to explain how you're trying to help, they'll typically tell you that you're being "too type A" or "too male", or some other response that indicates you didn't give *hugz* at the right time and place...and then...in 6 months they'll freak out on you and blame you for not warning them off of stupid plans #3 and #5.

Of course LJ is passive-aggressive vent blowing...le duh!
Hell, at least you aren't using it for passive-aggressive relationship ending, or to figure out if the divorce is finalized, or if the spouse has hit their 7 year itch, or finally come to terms with being serial monogamous, poly, or sexless...whatever.
*twitch* --

We need our friends to be assholes when they can do so instructively and constructively. We also need them to call bullshit when we've had too much sunshine blown up our ass and grown an inflated sense of entitlement.

See you in a couple of months...

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Wow, touche exponentially - you responded with a lot of familiar nerves of mine. It's almost like we share a common heritage, perspective, and environment from which we draw our experiences and related conclusions.

But...the blog post relationship ending / beginning crap - I think that should get your ability to shag or engage in any relationships license pulled until you take a class or something. Egads.

[novaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

I demand that you HUG me now, for a rather long and inappropriate time. NOW! THIS VERY SECOND! ...wow. That felt rather good. Must think about other demands to give over the interwebs.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I'm a top magnet...

[kelowna.livejournal.com]

Its kinda tough sometimes based on the signals people give. They approach you, as a lawyer, for helpful advice. At that point you switch into lawyer mode and you offer straight forward advice yet they can't separate you (the friend) from you (they lawyer) and want empathic advice, considerate advice and approving advice.

I know when I need a hug, when I need to be shaken into awareness and when I need a solution.

I think people muddy those three up too often and end up getting overly frustrated with the people around them as a result.

I can't think of anything more helpful than straight forward advice that _doesn't_ agree with where I am in my own mind or my own plotted path. It helps me examine a situation from all angles and better equips me to go forward.

Its tough to curb sensitivity levels. Harder to curb argumentative levels.

I consider you one of the top advice givers - and although sometimes we clash in our ideas and perspective, i've never seen you as anywhere near remotely wrong when it has come to career/employment/financial takes.

Hopefully this "non-bloggin'friend" will simmer down, breathe and take what you care to spend the time to offer... in.

--k

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Worst part is I can't actually give advice, or let's say it puts all of us at risk if I do so. Lawyers in firms actually sign binding documents saying they won't give advice even to family - doing so puts them and the firm at great risk.

I'm not allowed to represent anyone against any fed government agency in any forum due to my position. Plus, come on...I'm downright incompetent!

She'll simmer down - so will I after all this venting. I told her in so many words what I was doing, that I believed in her, that I thought she was right...but the drawback is she didn't come to me for advice - she wanted empathy. I _chose_ to try and help.

[lionsden.livejournal.com]

she wanted empathy. I _chose_ to try and help.

It is very difficult to know when someone just wants "hugz" and when they are receptive to a friend's help. I tend to try empathy and helpfulness, too, and then ask the person in question to try NOT to get angry with me if they didn't want/need the latter. If it doesn't calm the person down immediately, then they usually realize later that I was just trying to help and that I'm not the enemy. On that note – sometimes it is also misplaced frustration on the part of the person in the bad situation. But, honestly, I feel like trying to help is never the wrong thing to do, at worst it may be considered to be bad timing. If reasonable people are involved, then I think good, caring intentions should mean more to a friendship than bad timing.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I keep thinking of I was better at presenting the same message would be received.

[turbogrrl.livejournal.com]

hey, sometimes people have to send nasty emails to their boss until the universe steps in and bitch slaps them until they wake up and realize that sending nasty emails to their boss is actually hurting them more than their boss.

I will take a moment to say that there *are* personal differences on what "nasty email" entails. I started to write "I sent nasty email to my boss once..." but what I really did was send an email that was blunt, truthful, and completely devoid of any of the conciliating language I normally use. (I'm going to ignore the gaping rathole of how conciliating language is expected of one gender more than another.)

Now, I knew that sending that email was burning an emotional bridge, but it was not actionable in any form. It *did* guarantee that our working relationship was strained and that I'd be laid off, which was my goal (given that we weren't allowed to volunteer for layoffs).

So, in general conversation I might even say "I totally sent him nasty mail", when what I really mean is that I sent mail that I knew would hurt, not that I said "dear asshole, I hate you, and I am totally fed up with your fucking shit and you know where you can shove it."

I've been defriended in real life for being blunt and honest rather than *hugs* and lols. I don't feel bad about that; actually, I prefer it, especially if the alternative is to be a helpless witness/accessory to stupid ideas. *shrug*

[eac.livejournal.com]

FWIW, while I like people who will try to comfort me when I'm miserable, friends who don't confuse loyalty with agreement are extremely useful.