(no subject)

[vicarz]

Is there any benefit to this constant introspection? I mean I feel like I grow and understand through this process, and through the feedback I receive, but I also have to remember not to just sit around and think about it - do something! Go out there and be that thing you wanna be! Do those things that are worth doing. Don't just masturbate yourself with this pseudo-intellectual interaction.

Last night I unsuccessfully tried to fix the faucet in my rental unit. Grr - they knocked the glass shelf off the wall, had to patch the wall (that thing could hold a brick, so I'm ticked that it was abused - not replacing it, just patching the wall). I noticed the girl was sitting at home watching sit-coms and surfing the net. Why do I feel like a loser when I'm at home?

I worked from home and coffee this AM. I get shaky after many cups of coffee, but for some reason I always want more. I have to learn to fight back that feeling, like booze.

You can get used to anything. I have some poopy stuff in my life right now, but I'm kinda used to it. I'm separating my thoughts and memories of my dad into "live-dad" and "dying-dad." I wonder if I won't realize how broken I am until this whole episode is over (when the hell with that be? A week, month, year, ten years?) On the other hand, I'm impressed with my defense mechanisms. Now that I'm getting more aware of them, I find them not so bad. I use them intentionally and that's a good thing. Denial, anger (oh yes anger, but don't do anything you'll regret), drug abuse, distraction, endorphin abuse, rationalization, introspection and analysis, catharsis, commiseration...as long as you don't get stuck anywhere they're all good things.

Babies? Like us non-religiousy types, those of us that choose not to breed get all defensive over the huge pressure to do so. It's like being rabidly gay or poly when all the world is geared for hetero monog love. Like everything else to do with relationships, I'm quite happy to note I don't know. I don't know what I want, what is good for me, what I should strive for if anything, what I should avoid - I think I have enough huge obvious errors in my history that I can't respectably have an opinion. Kids? I don't know the first thing about babies, kids, young adults - how could I make a decision about that? I always considered that when I partnered for life (which I've always expected to do, and still do, even though I now realize it may not happen) that their input would heavily influence my decision in that regard. At one point when the question aspect of it was removed, solidly, I found myself a bit put back - I could deal, but the lack of choice left me a bit sore. Now the element of choice of spawn or no is back in my theoretical life. My father was born to a 50 year old father. I have no idea where I'm going with this.

My biggest 2 accomplishments in terms of relationships in the last what...5 years are:
1) discovering that I not only didn't know what I wanted, but I didn't know what questions to ask! I had given up on being able to discern truth from fiction, so I had this silly checklist of criteria that made for a good long-term mate (though it would seem for short term the list was very different): education, basic finance, respectable career, general fitness, not on meds, attractive to me, liberal politics, musical taste...it didn't seem to be a long or difficult list to me, though mentioning "criteria" gave lots of my friends the creeps. A few experiences with people who met my stated criteria convinced me I was way off
2) Recognizing and moving beyound my defense mechanisms. I looked at the people I had cared for in the past so many years, and with a recent experience realized that when I cared for someone it was generally someone I never considered relationship material at the start. This is no insult to those people - just circumstances seemed to say it shouldn't or wouldn't happen. Only then did I develop feelings! With anyone that was a long-term relationship possibility (in my misguided opinion at the time) I never developed feelings. My current theory is I was guarded in those relationships to the point I 2nd guessed my feelings and refused to feel or acknowledge feelings.

As always the solution, regardless of all the fun coffee-talk theoretical nonsense, is to keep active and do stuff with friends. Talk, eat, drink, watch smart stuff, watch dumb stuff, read, and live. Stop trying to make things, stop trying to avoid things - just do with some reasonable balance.

Previously I thought I couldn't detect lies. I'm not good at reading people, but I'm better than I was and I am much better at detecting lies than I used to be. Why am I so into physical stuff especially when it involves fighting? One reason is I'm friggin socially retarded - and I find the idea that if you are unable to deal with things through social discourse that you can elevate the issues into physical combat. Anyone see the problem with that line of thought? Welcome to Jose's middle-east social skills! Escalate much? Fail to address the real issue much? So I keep the motivation since I like the side effects, but remember that some of that social frustration should be channeled into social skills. Learn. Practice. Grow.

How to detect lies:
1. Listen to the person. Often if you don't show any skepticism they will eventually make absurd claims that can't possibly be true.
2. Believe the story when it is told to you! Someone telling the truth isn't convincing - they tend to not worry about convincing anyone of anything because they know they speak the truth. A liar knows they need to convince you (and sometimes themselves) that their story or version of events is true. They will monitor your reactions to the story, modify the story to fit your expectations, and customize everything to convince you of their truth. If you show disbelief when they tell you lies, they will get better at lying! You're more likely to catch them if you accept everything with an open mind. Your facial expressions of belief are more likely to result in sloppy lies.
3. Think through what you hear. Ask yourself, preferably later: i) are the facts in the story logically consistent? ii) is the teller of the story saint-like, a sad victim with no control over their life, or are the actors too good to be realistic? Similarly, iii) are the "bad people" too bad to be believable? Any B&W, good and evil, story is unlikely to be true.
4. When the story is over and everything is on the table, ask questions consistent with the story. Don't point out inconsistent parts of the story, but question the parts of the story that seem contradictory on their own - get the person to really commit to each fact that can't be true or true at the same time as other facts. See what details they volunteer. Try to get them to mistake your questions for interest in the story (see, now you're lying to catch a liar).
5. Keep an open mind and listen to others. Observe interactions. Note facts that are consistent or inconsistent with the story you're told. Ask questions about the facts in the story without retelling the story - pursue the parts individually to see if they were relayed to you accurately. The truth will eventually be obvious to everyone, but you may beat the curve by quietly observing whether the facts seem to support or contradict what you've been told.
6. Outlive the liar. Most people who lie don't just do it once - it's a pattern. "Fool me once..." You don't actually have to detect lies most of the time - often you can simply see what truths come out over time. No secret or lie survives for long, or if one does many others will become known. The simple strategy here is to spend more time with people you can trust, less with those who show they aren't trustworthy.

I don't mind giving up these techniques. I value the truth a great deal, and no matter how good the liar eventually truth will become public knowledge. Anything I can do to help in that process is worth doing. See, i.e., politics.

Comments

[alexlucard.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

I never understood the whole lying thing - especially to a sig other/partner. My life if weird and wacky enought that lying would just make the real things that happen to me less beliveable. Crying wolf syndrome.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Some people want to have their cake and eat it too, others can't control themselves and try to do damage control. I've done it, hated it, haven't done it in about 20 years I think. It's pretty common though.

[cobwellac.livejournal.com]

1. Listen to the person. Often if you don't show any skepticism they will eventually make absurd claims that can't possibly be true.

I love this one; it's so true!

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Stop laughing at me!

[pastor-saturn.livejournal.com]

Excellent lie-detection skills! Especially #2...makes an enormous amount of sense.

[darkgypsy13.livejournal.com]

I stress about lying in every survey i take. I hate liars and fakes. Im a very blunt person and people have told me before that the things i say tend to hurt or upset people but i rather tell the truth than say what they want to hear cuz that would be a lie and i don't lie. I found out ways to find out how someone is lying to me. First i get a weird feeling about how they present themselves when they speak, like pulling a finger, looking around, scratching constanly,twitching of their lip (i study and watch people all the time), etc. Another one, which always happens to me and is pretty obvious is them continuously repeating themselves about something, but the events and/or words in the story changes every time cuz they don't remember what they said the first couple of times. That one amuses me really, but at the same time disappoints.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Blunt is what I was, but I'm trying to get better at telling the truth as I see it without inflicting blunt force trauma. I'm not sure I have much faith in the watching reactions thing (sounds too Judge Judy to me, and a nervous person will come across as a liar in your view, while a good liar is quite comfortable with their lies and won't trigger your caution).

However, I do like the noting changes in their story over time. Even the cops do that one - repeating your story over and over will uncover the fictions you create on the spot. My favorite is to let someone describe an accident, and then ask what color someone's shirt was. They didn't make up that detail...

[ashbet]

I've found myself much happier since I set aside my expectations of who I would be in relationships with -- I used to have the life-partner-criteria list, and one thing that I discovered when I moved towards a more poly lifestyle was that I could have people in my life and enjoy them for what they contributed (and what I could give to them), whether or not they were necessarily "suitable as a long-term live-in partner" (for example, I'm obviously never going to get involved in a live-in/"serious" relationship with someone who doesn't want to be around kids, because I *have* one . . . but I'm fine with seeing someone casually or long-distance who isn't interested in kids, as long as they're friendly and civil to Kira if they encounter her.)

During the time that my dad was ill, I also did a lot of introspection, and I have found that I've changed in a lot of subtle ways since he passed away. How you're feeling isn't abnormal, you're reassessing your current life and your life goals right now.

**hugs**

-- A <3

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I fucking hate hugz :)

Good point about introspection - watching somebody die, slowly and painfully, or possibly live, barely and painfully, really makes you question a lot of things.

I'm not with you on the poly issue, but what you say sounds perfectly reasonable. I sort of of have the same type of thing with friends, only w/o sleeping with them.

[ashbet]

Just pretend I'm squishing you into my boobs, then -- that's basically what an Andi-hug is all about ;)

I do the same thing with friends as well . . . the poly thing just happens to be what works for me, I certainly don't expect it to be a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone. I do have friends that I do $Activity with specifically, and friends who I do lots of things with, and friends who I mostly talk to long-distance, etc. . . . it's perfectly cool to have a friend who you basically only see when you go bowling, and another friend who you pour your heart out to, and another friend who's fun to make out with, or go dancing with, or hang out at late-night diners with.

-- A :>

[kelowna.livejournal.com]

1. You feel like a loser when you sit at home alone cause you think of other people that sit at home alone as losers. I see nothing wrong with sitting at home alone and I don't think someone else that sits at home alone to be a loser. I find them cooler than people that ALWAYS NEED to be out. Those are the fearful losers.

2. Relationships happen. They don't get laid out, defined, determined, discussed - they just happen. My best friends are people that I didn't go into the situation thinking: I want to be best friends with this person! I just look back and say: wow they've been with me through thick and thin, sad and happy.

3. Cheaters are liars, that would be a good start in determining.

4. In terms of whether or not a person is lying I start with the WHY are they lying. Normally people lie to impress, hide or further convince themselves of something that they are trying to be.

5. There are also different perspectives. The same thing could happen and two different people view it differently as they lay upon the occurance their own projected intentions. I have just smiled at someone and have had everything from: "she's hitting on my boyfriend" to "she hates me" come back at me. Perplexing really. But its all based in fear and fear of confrontation with an undetermined entity.

6. I've been called a liar. I am, however, not a liar just because I don't want to share details with someone else. Because I ramble so, its when I choose not to that people fill in the blanks.

--k

[vicar.livejournal.com]

A numbered list response? What are you, an attorney?

1. Not really - I just feel like a loser when I'm at home and don't want to be. If invited somewhere and I choose not to go, it feels different than when I'm not alone by choice.

2. Good point - expectations yield their own problems too.

3. You keep yelling "duh" at me. It's like you're trying to say something...

4. Why is a good place to go, but not the best for me to start with. It takes the story to figure out the why sometimes. I look at commercials the same way - you watch it, then try to figure out what are they trying to appeal to.

5. Also true. People can say different things about the same situation and neither be lying.

6. Sometimes failing to tell the truth is a lie, but this gets complex.

Mostly agreed, and thank you for a long read and thought out response :)

[kelowna.livejournal.com]

1. Then go out. Pretty simple. Your answer indicates that the "loser" tag is not applied because you are at home - it seems the "loser" tag is applied if no one reaches out to you to ask you to go out of the house.

3. DUH

4. "Why" more in the sense of whether i'm going to be offended or not.

5. Ayup. The problem there comes in trying to insist that they are RIGHT. RIGHT! RIGHT! RIGHT! "_MY_ VIEW IS RIGHT IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME YOU ARE EVIL TOO!" *ahem*

6. Sure. But I'm also talking about strangers.

--k

[kuanyin00.livejournal.com]

i don't like lies. then again, people have a funny way of perceiving. Sometimes they speak off the cuff (unaware that what they're saying is Completely Absurd). One girlfriend told me (during one argument) that she was returning to men. She was tired of women. Well, she talked a lot of shit when she was enraged/defeated (shit, did i say that?)

the truth is, perception is a mind-game. People say or do things to parallel their Sig Other's thought process. Sometimes they'll say shit simply to get your ire. Communication is learned and it's something you constantly need to work on. I'll admit, i still suck at it.

i'm a bit of a "The Notebook" freak (i love that movie) and i'll expand on this one scene a bit... he says, "we fight, but then we make up", and my opinion is that you fight (i say a lot of shit without thinking, oops). So there's the fight. And the relationship happens in the making up. The relationship is what happens after you've hurt each other.

i wish there was more to read on this... the apologizing/sitting on ego/feeling the other's doing the same/making up bit. prevailing culture emphasizes sex after makeups but that's not so effective! not in the longterm!!!

[vicar.livejournal.com]

When I'm frustrated I say I'll go back to men too.

I think the relationship is in the fights - how far you go, what it takes to make up, how you understand each other's perspective and tolerate their faults when they are at their worst is a good indication for the term of the relationship as a whole. Sex is too easy - you can have hot sex when you're mad, and the less you care...but somewhere in the problems is where the tough and valuable part of the relationship is. Those fair-weather friend lessons apply with more force to relationships.

[cweaselle.livejournal.com]

I don't know why you came up with all these things, but I can tell you one thing. No one will learn anything from watching my expressions because most of the time they are not what I really think or feel. People consantly ask me why I am so sad & I'm really fairly happy.