yes finger still hurt

[vicarz]

I think I just realized what is wrong with the USian anti-immigration feelings - they're anti-American dream.

To me, USia is a place famous for it's rags to riches dream of equality. Ignoring the obvious advantage of the born-rich, and disadvantages of the born-poor, there is this belief that anyone can go to rags, anyone can reach riches based on what they do. Rags to riches is our dream, and a dream that brings people here. More than in other countries, wealth is not immunity from the law and poverty is not a life sentence.
Please don't sidetrack into the merits of that dream

However, arguing that "I was born here, therefore I deserve the dream, and those that were not born here do not deserve the dream" is inconsistent with that dream. When you say "I was born here" you are essentially arguing for a royalty-based class system where wealth and status is based on bloodline rather than effort and ability over time.

The argument "immigrate legally" seems to ignore some US ideas: first, it's next to impossible due to low numbers allowed in, second, US folks are not known for their religious adherence to the law themselves - underage drinking, speeding, skimping on taxes, these are practically considered patriotic acts. How do you pick which laws matter - based on whether you want to do them or not - or is it just if you get caught?

I am having trouble finding congruence with "The American Dream," with "Screw you if you weren't born like me."

Comments

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

It is hypocritical for anyone who isn't Native American by descent...

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily - that's only true if the NA culture in question is also for equality of treatment in law etc and has no "birthright" privileges or punishments. There is a counter that after so many generations you don't have a right to complain...

[unapologetic.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

"Whenever anyone stands up and says 'the rich have too much power; let's take it back', the people say 'no, for next year I may be rich.'"

Maybe the AD isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[peregrin8.livejournal.com]

Makes me wanna sing Gogol Bordello...

But if you give me the invitation
To hear the bells of freedom chime
To hell with your double standards
We're coming rougher every time

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

An interesting thing about USia is that while immigrants tend to have generational upward mobility, our homegrown poor do not.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I am not familiar with that statistic. I could be based on how dirt poor the immigrants are (they may move up to how poor our poor are from mud-huts?), the fact that to get statistics you may be dealing with legal immigrants who often are the elite from other countries coming here to earn wealth, but...I've seen many studies that show people on welfare typically are on it for short periods of time and that a very small minority stays on for long but I'm not sure that addresses the poor as a whole.

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

While I generally agree with having a more open immigration policy, is there validity to the claims that the US doesn't have the resources to support every immigrant who might wish to come to the US?

[vicar.livejournal.com]

In theory it makes sense, but with this country producing enough grain to consistently bail out other nations when they have shortages? Govt Chese? Corn? No, we don't appear to be there. If anything, we're snubbing potential tax revenue.

I THINK - I don't know, haven't really heard this angle before. Usually the question is whether "they" raise or lower our overall salaries, and since I am not in the hotel cleaning or construction labor market I don't see it; plus I have seen studies that show immigrant labor forces simply allow others to do better jobs for more pay. Tax analyses show benefits as well -- but again it's not my field and I don't have any quick links.