(no subject)
Mar. 17th, 2010 07:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
vicarzI am a backstabber, kinda.
I listen to your complaints about work.
I don't repeat them to others, or at least not using your name.
I nod my head either interested or feigning interest.
On a bad day, you'll think I'm interested because I ask follow up questions.
I'm not going to hurt you on purpose.
I'm not going to sabotage your career.
I'm not going to tell the people you complain about what you said, not a word.
At work I've had problems with management, but overcome or outlived the people I had trouble with. I actually had a bad work reputation for a bit due to a couple of bitter rivals, but I've passed them by and now have a huge reputation as excelling in those areas they accused me of being weak. I have not used my "fame" to do anything negative to them. I've listened as my work friends have complained about these same managers, first with great sympathy. The problem arose when I realized there was no improvement on their part. They didn't fight back, they didn't apply elsewhere, and worst of all in many cases while the person harassing them was actually a real bitch - they weren't wrong. We had very dedicated employees who had been allowed to do things wrong for years, decades in some cases. Their managers didn't know any better. The problem was, and I had this problem too, when you've been trained wrong to begin with and rewarded for doing what you do - you think you're doing it right.
My friends, my work-friends, were doing things wrong. They wrote poorly. They cut and paste. They half-assed their work and thought the downtime they had was normal. It was fine when they did it for ten years while their bosses did the same thing and held them to that standard. The problems arose when someone came in, often with poor autocratic management style, and corrected their work. I understand mixing the bitch with the message, but ultimately the message was true:
Your writing sucks.
You did it wrong.
Your mistakes are costing us money and cases.
The problem started with management, but the other problem was the failure of the subordinates to take the truth that was in the message and apply it. They were too proud - they couldn't hear anything other than the personality clash, and failed to develop themselves. Now, to their credit - they've pretty much all moved on. Chances are they will succeed, for in a new environment they'll likely take criticism well and grow instead of just whine to their friends about their unfair treatment. They'll be more humble, and hopefully grow for the experience.
I'm back-stabbing because I know this but don't tell them. I try to point them in that direction a bit with some questions, wish them the best, but don't want them to feel betrayed so I don't point out the flaws I know about. I don't agree with them but I don't outwardly show disagreement either.
People know I understand some basics about employment law, and often bring their problems to me "to find out the answers." I don't answer. If I'm really pissed off, I'll ask questions. I'll blow through the conclusions and 1-sided accounts of unfair treatment, and ask for details. Most stories fall apart just on the first level - asking for the details. "They said that? Really? Verbatim? Where were you? Who witnessed it? What did you say before that? Yes, before. What before that? Ok, then what did you say?" Many get defensive when asked to go beyond the victimized soliloquy they've developed over time to elicit sympathy from their "friends," the ones who confuse loyalty to a person with having principles or helping that friend grow or know when they're in the wrong. Others are too stupid or drunk to realize what is going on, so they blather on unaware or uncaring that their swiss-cheesey story has collapsed on review. For them I often simplify by asking what law this unfair situation violated, what proof they have about that law, and ultimately give the one piece of information I'll ever share - the fact that there are almost no lawyers who take an employment law case on contingency - you have to pay the lawyer up front, in advance, at a rate of $450 hourly (as low as $200 in some areas, often in the $3-400 range), to do hundreds of hours of work on a claim that will almost certainly fail.
It costs money to pursue claims - even just ones, even if you win. The conclusion to be found in the questions is that if the goal is to find an ear to agree with you...that brings you nothing but illusory solace. I'm a dick, sure, but I'll try to find a nice way to tell you (such as asking you questions you can't answer) that even if you are as right as you tell me you are, that the answer is not for the government to swoop in from above and enforce your perspective of fairness - it's for you to leave the unfair situation or find a way to benefit from it. If you don't fix it, if you don't grow from it, if it's not right, then leave it. If you can't leave it, then you adapt and learn to live with it.
Sigh. Whining is fine, but only if it is a revving up to action.
Yes, yes this was a passive-aggressive post. So sue me.
Better yet, let me explain why I occasionally do passive-aggressive posts. Nobody who reads this has recently done anything of the kind. Not one of you. "If you can read this, it's not about you." Seriously. So why do this? Well, for one I have to blow off steam sometimes and while I know this does nothing, it helps me to talk to myself/the abyss every once in a while. Also, somebody out there has the opportunity to read this, think about whether it might apply to them, and LEARN from it. I have done this - heard criticisms of others online and realized, quietly, that I was acting like or making the same mistake as the person chastised. I benefitted from that passive-aggressive rant. I honestly hope someone can learn from mine.
I am NOT WEARING GREEN because I am NOT FUCKING IRISH. I'm kinda Latino, mostly mutt, nondiscriminatory on many bases you haven't even heard of yet, and drink that slow-boat Guinness (I capitalize Guinness but not god or american), but why you think I'll wear green is beyond me. Pinch me and I'll deck you or press charges for assault as I deem appropriate. Oh, and Happy St. P to you and ewe.
I listen to your complaints about work.
I don't repeat them to others, or at least not using your name.
I nod my head either interested or feigning interest.
On a bad day, you'll think I'm interested because I ask follow up questions.
I'm not going to hurt you on purpose.
I'm not going to sabotage your career.
I'm not going to tell the people you complain about what you said, not a word.
At work I've had problems with management, but overcome or outlived the people I had trouble with. I actually had a bad work reputation for a bit due to a couple of bitter rivals, but I've passed them by and now have a huge reputation as excelling in those areas they accused me of being weak. I have not used my "fame" to do anything negative to them. I've listened as my work friends have complained about these same managers, first with great sympathy. The problem arose when I realized there was no improvement on their part. They didn't fight back, they didn't apply elsewhere, and worst of all in many cases while the person harassing them was actually a real bitch - they weren't wrong. We had very dedicated employees who had been allowed to do things wrong for years, decades in some cases. Their managers didn't know any better. The problem was, and I had this problem too, when you've been trained wrong to begin with and rewarded for doing what you do - you think you're doing it right.
My friends, my work-friends, were doing things wrong. They wrote poorly. They cut and paste. They half-assed their work and thought the downtime they had was normal. It was fine when they did it for ten years while their bosses did the same thing and held them to that standard. The problems arose when someone came in, often with poor autocratic management style, and corrected their work. I understand mixing the bitch with the message, but ultimately the message was true:
Your writing sucks.
You did it wrong.
Your mistakes are costing us money and cases.
The problem started with management, but the other problem was the failure of the subordinates to take the truth that was in the message and apply it. They were too proud - they couldn't hear anything other than the personality clash, and failed to develop themselves. Now, to their credit - they've pretty much all moved on. Chances are they will succeed, for in a new environment they'll likely take criticism well and grow instead of just whine to their friends about their unfair treatment. They'll be more humble, and hopefully grow for the experience.
I'm back-stabbing because I know this but don't tell them. I try to point them in that direction a bit with some questions, wish them the best, but don't want them to feel betrayed so I don't point out the flaws I know about. I don't agree with them but I don't outwardly show disagreement either.
People know I understand some basics about employment law, and often bring their problems to me "to find out the answers." I don't answer. If I'm really pissed off, I'll ask questions. I'll blow through the conclusions and 1-sided accounts of unfair treatment, and ask for details. Most stories fall apart just on the first level - asking for the details. "They said that? Really? Verbatim? Where were you? Who witnessed it? What did you say before that? Yes, before. What before that? Ok, then what did you say?" Many get defensive when asked to go beyond the victimized soliloquy they've developed over time to elicit sympathy from their "friends," the ones who confuse loyalty to a person with having principles or helping that friend grow or know when they're in the wrong. Others are too stupid or drunk to realize what is going on, so they blather on unaware or uncaring that their swiss-cheesey story has collapsed on review. For them I often simplify by asking what law this unfair situation violated, what proof they have about that law, and ultimately give the one piece of information I'll ever share - the fact that there are almost no lawyers who take an employment law case on contingency - you have to pay the lawyer up front, in advance, at a rate of $450 hourly (as low as $200 in some areas, often in the $3-400 range), to do hundreds of hours of work on a claim that will almost certainly fail.
It costs money to pursue claims - even just ones, even if you win. The conclusion to be found in the questions is that if the goal is to find an ear to agree with you...that brings you nothing but illusory solace. I'm a dick, sure, but I'll try to find a nice way to tell you (such as asking you questions you can't answer) that even if you are as right as you tell me you are, that the answer is not for the government to swoop in from above and enforce your perspective of fairness - it's for you to leave the unfair situation or find a way to benefit from it. If you don't fix it, if you don't grow from it, if it's not right, then leave it. If you can't leave it, then you adapt and learn to live with it.
Sigh. Whining is fine, but only if it is a revving up to action.
Yes, yes this was a passive-aggressive post. So sue me.
Better yet, let me explain why I occasionally do passive-aggressive posts. Nobody who reads this has recently done anything of the kind. Not one of you. "If you can read this, it's not about you." Seriously. So why do this? Well, for one I have to blow off steam sometimes and while I know this does nothing, it helps me to talk to myself/the abyss every once in a while. Also, somebody out there has the opportunity to read this, think about whether it might apply to them, and LEARN from it. I have done this - heard criticisms of others online and realized, quietly, that I was acting like or making the same mistake as the person chastised. I benefitted from that passive-aggressive rant. I honestly hope someone can learn from mine.
I am NOT WEARING GREEN because I am NOT FUCKING IRISH. I'm kinda Latino, mostly mutt, nondiscriminatory on many bases you haven't even heard of yet, and drink that slow-boat Guinness (I capitalize Guinness but not god or american), but why you think I'll wear green is beyond me. Pinch me and I'll deck you or press charges for assault as I deem appropriate. Oh, and Happy St. P to you and ewe.
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-17 01:14 pm (UTC)1) no issue with the passive-aggressive; most blogs have some unless we have an unrelenting stream of (a) travel narratives, (b) "great designs and plans for power"(tm), (c) interesting philosophical wanking (often verging on passive-aggressive), or (d) practice rants for the next emotive outburst to be followed by *hugz*, sympathy, and furtive blowjobs in the club bathroom. *ick*
2) passive-aggressive or not, venting steam, irritation, and confusion is again the point...besides, you were gracious enough not to do the standard "and you don't have to read it, so there!"
3) I found what you had to say very intriguing as I hadn't thought through some of the implications that you offered. If something will cost money, just or not, I don't tend to try--manly because I assume I will lose, just as I lose in poker (when I play) by being outbid. Personally, I also expect cronyism and identity politics, so I expect to lose any legal challenge and thus avoid them.
One thing I would like to offer: sometimes it is difficult to leave a bad situation. I'm not talking about "battered wife/lover" or its related syndromes, but situations where someone has a checkered past, a poor review in their history, got in on hard work but may not quite have the qualifications on paper to move elsewhere, or even the simple geographic limitations.
And last, as I blow hard and long, there are those who have a difficulty learning--period--because they have always been taught to go for the "right answer" without developing an understanding of the analytical or argumentative process. I deal with these on a weekly basis, and the depressing thing is they try hard, they really do, to match the "templates" they've seen that they've been told are "right" --but-- often without grasping why the form fits a function, or why principle elements are privileged over others. Variety confuses them. Retraining is not quite impossible, but it means just what you've said: overcoming ingrained behavior, and worse, ingrained intellectual patterns.
Oh, and fuck St. Patrick -- drove the snakes out, my ass. Damned pontificating, self-righteous bastard right up there with the rest that talked about how the "Irish saved civilization". bollocks. Give me a druid and some mead or whiskey, dammit.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-17 01:55 pm (UTC)Thanks, long-winded I like. I agree it's hard to burst out of patterns, particularly mental ones. Lots of effort is spent in creating defense mechanisms that cause immediate feeling better but have the potential to prevent action to solve the problem. It can be like the abusive relationship but while difficult that is _why_ the leaving is so important.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-17 04:38 pm (UTC)Sometimes the whining is the thing that allows people to cope with the situation. They *have* learned to live with it.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-17 05:03 pm (UTC)Interesting point that the whining is their coping mechanism. If that's their best approach and it allows them to deal with a situation it might be a good thing; more likely it is not as they fail to improve their situation. I'm more worried about the danger of people being stuck in patterns of self-consoling or receiving empty affirmation instead of taking action.
I am not seeing the inconsistency but it was an interesting observation.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-18 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-18 12:30 am (UTC)PS it's nice to hear from you, where have you been hiding?!
This is advice I could have taken myself at times - that's why I try to give it freely.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-18 12:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-18 10:31 am (UTC)