In defense of the republicans:

[vicarz]

I'm not going to defend Palin; however, I am going to point out that the lead member in the executive ticket is McCain and he doesn't suck. He is old, but he's fully functional and should be for years. He has tons of bipartisan experience, much of it respected for decades. He has flaws, but so do the other players.

You know what? His military experience DOES COUNT. Seriously. I just spent time with someone I hadn't really seen in ten years, and found they were different but their core as a person was pretty much the same. Why wouldn't McCain be the same? He was a prisoner of war - and by all accounts was not only dignified but far more resistant than many of his peers. He provoked the guards and got so abused...he only signed his fake confession when his captors re-broke his arm and left him in a pool of his own blood and fluids. They say after that "loss," he got even more provocative with his jailors - as though he was serving a personal penance. That was over 30 years ago, but it shows a strength of spirit and character that is unlikely to go away. Now, as a pilot perhaps his perspective on that war was, and remains, skewed compared to those who saw the issues on the ground - but I do believe that that type of behavior in his "youth" tells volumes about his core as a person (thank you long interview on NPR). This same type of analysis is why I respect Kerry, same war but on the ground (I don't buy that republican attack on his character or service) and why Bush is a fucking douche, who used the pseudo military experience and bolted from it to campaign as that was more important.

Why say this, rise to the "defense" of McCain. Palin is a twit and shames the entire platform, but I think the focus has moved too far away from Obama (oh, and for the love of cheese don't forget the other hundreds of races in November other than the superman allegory prez). I fall into the trap, as many do, of wanting to trash the entire republican party for Palin. That's lazy and too easy to do. When we descend into name calling and pointing out the weakest link's flaws as a standard debate tactic, we degrade the entire process and waste our abilities to engage in spirited debate on relevant issues. Our debates should be about broad patterns of behavior of multiple leaders, individual voting records, character shown over years of consistent (or in-) behavior, and most of all - policy arguments as supported by data and analysis.

Unless we're watching the daily show because that was just fucking hilarious.

Comments

[joanarkham.livejournal.com]

Any respect I had for his character disappeared when he started snuggling up to the religious right that he had previously denounced.

Is it worse to have once had character and then lost it or never to have had any at all?

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I don't know that much about his views, though NPR also ran on about that. One commentator noted that he really hadn't changed his views much at all - only his views on taxes (and one other issue that escapes me) had 180'd. When it came to the wackos, he was on that side but never declared 100% - he just took what he could get. I guess that type of ambiguous whoring isn't really a compliment, but it's better than just screaming kill all doctors.

[ex-dasboot.livejournal.com]

That commentator was an idiot.

-In 99 he said he didn't think Roe v Wade should be overturned, now he does.
-In 2000, he wanted to ensure that abortion was still an option for cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life was in danger. Now he's against all abortion, just like Palin.
-When it was first discovered, he critisized Bush's wiretapping program as circumventing the law, now he supports it.
-He used to insist that all detaines, no matter how terrible, get due process and are allowed some adjunction, now he doesn't.
-He strongly opposed indefinite detention, but when the SCOTUS recently ruled the same thing he called it "one of the worst decisions made in the history of this country." Recently he denied ever saying that.
-He was one of the most vocal opponants of the use of torture, agreeing with critics who stated waterboarding WAS torture. Then he voted No on a bill that would ban it.
-He's been for, against, and for kicking Russia out of the G8
-before we got there, he was very vocal about how easy Iraq would be and parroted the statements about being greated as liberators. Now he likes to claim he was critical of it form the start.
-He heavily critisized Jim Webb's GI bill, skipped the vote on it, and when it passed the son of a bitch tried to take credit for making it.
-Like Bush and every other republican a year ago, he was intensely against the concept of timetables for leaving Iraq. Now he's for them.
-In 06 he said, I shit you not, gay marriage should be allowed as long as it's somehow different from straighy marriage. Now, duh.
-He wrote a comprehensive immigration bill and now claims he wouldn't even vote for his own bill.
-Other bills he wrote then switched sides on include a lobbyist reform bill from 97, and a campaign finance reform bill from 06.
-In May of this year he approved a ban on lobbyists working for his campaign. Two months later he said it was fine if they worked for him.
-He once said he believed in evolution and while he respected creationism, he didn't think it should be taught in science class. Guess what his stance is now.
-He was ok with gay adoption, now he's not.
-He was recorded saying he didn't know much about economics, now he denies ever saying it.
-He supported the ban on offshore drilling Bush Sr. enacted. Now he's for off-shore drilling.
-In 02 he was in favor of repealing the estate tax. In 06 he was strongly against repealing it.
-In 99 he called Jerry Falwell an agent of intolerance. In 02 he was doing photo ops with him and speaking at his college. This is the guy who said we deserved 9/11. There are lots of others he has accused of corruption and so forth back in 2000, but now considers allies...Grover Norquist, Henry Kissinger. Either he's buried a ton of hatchets and everyone has come clean, or he's full of shit.

The sad thing is that this is a short list. I suppose there are some views you could say haven't changed, but only because he re-reversed his opinion. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it feels like some serious Manchurian Candidate level stuff would have to happen to get a guy who was tortured for 5 years of his life to reverse his opinion on the use of torture.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I love the list - any place where this is compiled and verifiable?

Ugh - procon.org is not as well set up as it could be.

[ex-dasboot.livejournal.com]

Big list, mostly sourced. (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops)

Try to overlook the URL name, but they source both before opinions and afters. (http://howinsaneisjohnmccain.blogspot.com/2008/03/mccain-never-met-position-he-didnt-like.html)

[vicar.livejournal.com]

WOW, the really nice thing is that they cite his own friggin website for his revolving opinions. Very very nice indeedy.

Too bad the flip-flop Fox trickery only works on the feeble minded. Kerry flip-flopped, but not these fellas. Huh.

[ex-dasboot.livejournal.com]

I didn't like Kerry, but he didn't really switch positions much, especially compared to Bush then and ESPECIALLY compared to McCain now. Some of the ones they noted as flip-flops for Kerry were differing opinions expressed 30 years apart. McCain's range from years to months to even days apart. It was just a meme that stuck.

[2501.livejournal.com]

I think the simple fact is that when you have been trying to be president for more than a decade, and especially when you could have won in 2000 and you've watched the moron who beat you sit in the oval office for 8 years, you start to justify to yourself that anything is OK if it gets you elected.

[2501.livejournal.com]

no, he really has done a complete 180 on the whackos.
Here's what he said in 2000 when running against Bush:
"Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right."

In 2007, McCain went and gave a speech at Falwell's Liberty University, and on Meet the Press declared that Falwell was no longer an agent of intolerance, in spite of the fact that in between 2000 and 2007, Falwell had both claimed that Homosexuals and Lesbians were to blame for both the 9/11 attacks and the destruction of New Orleans by Katrina.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Don't hide from the truth...