My response to the "privilege" MEME.

[vicarz]

I was talking to someone the other day about whether owning a ferrari means you're rich. I argued it did, and we talked about the difference between spending what you make and saving for retirement. I hadn't really thought about it, but I realized I sock away about 25-50% of all the money I make into the future. 15% of salary goes into my retirement problem off the top, then I max out my roth IRA - another 5k post taxes annum as of today. Right there I'm already over 20%, then if you figure my private stocks and property investments are retirement plans as well (they definitely are, but technically I could sell them), I might be even over 50% of my income spent on the future. My god - I don't use half of my income! Am I rich? Poor?

If I had rich parents I would probably spend my money, perhaps even earn it, in a different way. Privilege? I went to public schools, had educated parents, and received help going to college. The important thing in my current view is what I have to do based on my parents financial well-being. I've lived my life knowing I had to support myself - that I would always be responsible for me, so when the time came that I fell ill or was otherwise unable to take care of myself, I had to have the resources to take care of it. On my parent's death, I receive nothing or minimal funds. I'm strapped in a lower-middle class lifestyle because despite my income and sound financial decisions I have to invest in my future with a huge portion of my income.

I have friends of similar income levels living much better than I am. They receive gifts from parents, but more importantly have a financial situation in which they can be assured a legacy of retirement money from their parents. Several have "millionaire" parents if you count the property owned in addition to investments. Their entire lives, they have lived with the knowledge that no matter what they did, they had a lifetime of security to fall back on. Most of those friends are very successful, hard-working, and should be very independently proud of where they are today based on their labors. Had they not had rich parents, they may well still be successful at similar income levels to where they are today. However, the lifestyle they live, the risks they took, the time they spent playing, and the fact they don't sock away 25-50% or more of their income is also the product of their privilege.

If I sound proud of what I've accomplished given my resources, I am. If I sound jealous of my richer friends, I am; but I'm not bitter. I'm proud of them too. I just wish I could get back those years I was living on beans and rice while I worked in a factory through grad school, and I wish I had their retirement plan so I could play with my hard-earned money today.

Comments

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

If you can AFFORD to save that much of your income, I'd call that pretty well to do. But then I have a weird concept of rich. In my view, if you never find yourself worrying about money you're rich. I therefore find myself rich having pretty much the exact average income for the country I live in. Most people with my income would not consider themselves at all rich. But then again they probably have never been poor -- estranged from one's parents, having to make the difficult decisions on whether to pay the water bill or eat this week, having to sleep with someone in order to have a place to stay that night, NOT having a place to stay that night, being too underweight to donate plasma for $20. Compared to my 18-year-old self I am swimming in money -- and damn grateful for it.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Well I think what you're calling rich I'm calling financially stable, or just "not-poor." I could call myself comfortable, but the scanning craigslist for 2nd hand electronics when my peers are just stopping by the apple store for the latest hot toys on the way home from work with a frappachino makes me feel less than wealthy.

[grymnir.livejournal.com]

Sorry boy, she's got you, you don't have to worry about money = well-off. Your choice of scanning Craig's list rather than going to Apple is odd, it seems a holdover from your rice-n-ramen days. I buy from the Apple store, but with a student discount, and never as soon as something is released. Reason: I tend to break things, so need the warranty that a second hand purchase cannot provide. For me it is nothing more than paranoia.

The only thing keeping me from donating plasma is time, that and I'd have to lie about who I have and haven't slept with because of their biased and asinine policies regarding donors.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Yeah I would probably give blood someday were it not for that. I'd give my blood...to apple, of course.

Not having to worry about money, well that's interesting. I'm all about choices and the consequences of those choices, and I have little money today and have to be tight. I could get away with not looking for a short while, but it would catch up with me quickly. My investments are sucking a lot of today's money out of me.

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

Having read the rest of the comments I would like to amend my definition as being the definition of "rich enough." Certainly I would never actually describe myself as rich. But the answer to "do I need to be making more money than I am now" is no. Certainly, sometimes I get low on cash; now is one of those times, I'm about to spend a week in Amsterdam and Spain and I just bought one of my plane tickets to the States for Sister #2's wedding. I DO have more money, it's just in savings. Having money you have hidden away does not equate to not having money.

I think your definition is more what I think of as "independently wealthy". It relies on not having to work versus what income you derive from your work.

Also, my income would be pathetic if I were trying to support my partner and/or some kids on it. For just me it's plenty.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_blackjack_/]

Those of us with negative income would like to point out that you are in fact rich. Now buy me something.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Let's develop an objective working definition of rich. How about not having to work yet having enough money for rent and food without working or sacrificing their future?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_blackjack_/]

My definition of "rich" is being able to buy things.

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

That looks about like mine.

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

The meme seemed to focus more on the perceived socio-economic class of one's parents than oneself.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

They way I've seen people respond to it seemed to indicate that people were considering the status of their parents as a comparison basis to themselves and their status. I just combined my conversation about rich, discovering what % of my income is not being spent on fun today, and the meme for this series of thoughts.

[blindtillnow.livejournal.com]

my ridiculous subjective definition of rich is "excess income". after you pay for your mortgage/retirement/groceries/healthcare/utilities, what do you have left over?

i believe i'm fairly financially stable, but rich? ha. that's a good one.

-S

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I had no idea what a can of worms the definition of rich would be!

I'm afraid my points are lost in my not-well-thought-out foundation. Guess I'll cash out my retirement and get that car ;P

Worms?

[redsteve.livejournal.com]

You could afford worms? Man. We couldn't afford worms; we had to roll up mud into little cylinders. And a CAN of worms? Wow, you really are living in the lapdance of luxury.

Re: Worms?

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Let's all spend a moment pondering lapdances from worms...

Re: Worms?

[redsteve.livejournal.com]

That just gives whole new meaning to the expression "fish or cut bait."

Re: Worms?

[pastor-saturn.livejournal.com]

You're just "fishing" for compliments now.

[joanarkham.livejournal.com]

To me "rich" is "fuck you money". The amount of money I would need to live my life exactly like I want to.

Right now I'm "comfortable", but when I think about what it's going to take to achieve my immediate goal (get the hell out of the exurbs) it's crushing. If I lived in Iowa on my salary I'd be living like a damn hell ass king!

[vicar.livejournal.com]

That's the DC gummint wahka curse - rich by the numbers, poor in the life. I try not to fall into the trap of talking about how much my ghetto condos cost to the people in the sticks who live in mansions costing less than $250k.

[turbogrrl.livejournal.com]

it possible to buy a ferrari and not have any savings. It's possible to buy a ferrari for under $20k. Just like it's possible to buy a BMW for less than $10k. The problem with using absolute markers like [ferrari, house, expensive watch] and not taking into consideration the whole picture [debt load, theivery, gifts] is that it's very hard to be at all accurate.

Rich is relative. Always has been, always will be. If you ever thought you were rich, you'd feel comfortable and let it all go. You can't afford to do that with your personailty, so no matter how much capital you amass you will never consider yourself rich.

[underfiend.livejournal.com]

Don't you own two condos?

Dude, you're rich. Deal with it.

That privilege meme is false, however, because it's not really measuring privilege per say, but socio-economic background. Privilege is more tied into culture, not really money, at least when you consider that race can be a big factor. Example: A minority who makes as much as Bill Gates would not be able to get away with the same nutty or illegal behavior as Gates. That's an example of privilege.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Interesting - I think I agree. Now, owning is relative...I am in a contract to own 2 condos, and I own a majority of one, but barely the nipple of the other and won't for some time.

I think I have a funny definition of rich - it's nice home in good location, cars at whim, and no need to work - ever. It's not jet-set big boat rich though - that's a different league than just rich. Interesting though - I'm discovering the issue is tough as rich is such a relative term.

I'm so privileged I thought everyone thought rich was the same thing I thought it was?

[underfiend.livejournal.com]

I'm so privileged I thought everyone thought rich was the same thing I thought it was?
Pretty much.

But really, if you have to ask the question "Am I rich?" you're rich. Poor people, or even moderate-income individuals do not ask that question generally.

When you know you could potentially spend an excessive amount of money on say, something like a top of the line brand new car without planning to do so and will be fine afterwards, you're rich.

Actually, you're right in your last comment because my perception is not the same. I believe the terms "rich" and "wealthy" which are two different things. Rich is what the person is who wins the multi-million dollar lottery (and this money can easily be lost/spent), "wealthy" is man who doesn't need to ever work because his money pretty much self-sustaining, either through investments, property, business, etc; in other words, there is money enough for them- the individual is worth a lot, ergo, there is no real need for them to actively gain more wealth, nor can this wealth be easily lost.

Just for giggles, MW says:


Main Entry:
rich Listen to the pronunciation of rich
Pronunciation:
\ˈrich\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English riche, from Old English rīce; akin to Old High German rīhhi rich, Old English rīce kingdom, Old High German rīhhi, noun; all from prehistoric Germanic words borrowed from Celtic words akin to Old Irish rí (genitive ríg) king — more at royal
Date:
before 12th century

1: having abundant possessions and especially material wealth

--

Main Entry:
wealth Listen to the pronunciation of wealth
Pronunciation:
\ˈwelth also ˈweltth\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English welthe, from wele weal
Date:
13th century

1obsolete : weal welfare2: abundance of valuable material possessions or resources3: abundant supply : profusion4 a: all property that has a money value or an exchangeable value b: all material objects that have economic utility; especially : the stock of useful goods having economic value in existence at any one time

[vicar.livejournal.com]

But really, if you have to ask the question "Am I rich?" you're rich. Poor people, or even moderate-income individuals do not ask that question generally.

Win. Nobody knows what rich is, but we all know what poor is.

When you know you could potentially spend an excessive amount of money on say, something like a top of the line brand new car without planning to do so and will be fine afterwards, you're rich.

But fine is releative - in what time period? How fine? Back to door #1.

[underfiend.livejournal.com]

True. It's subjective, just like attraction.

Considering America is affluent, and our society decedent, it is relative to your location and your culture. Were you in India, you'd probably be on par with some of the more successful IT gurus so you would probably be considered upper-middle class, but not rich. Of course, those kids taking dirt baths there or even here in the US would see you as rich.

I had a bit of a shock one day when I compared the average income in DC to that of VA and then to my income. I wasn't as "well off" as I thought I was. Just because I currently have disposable income, I am by no means rich nor wealthy. I guess that's why it's generally best not to gage one's self, success, or happiness against external factors.

Fifty years ago, we'd be living like princes with the income we gain currently. Who knows what it will take to be comfortable fifty years from now.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I'm very in tune with that disposable income issue. I used to live on less than half what I made, and spent of the extra on law school. As that wrapped up, I sucked up 2 mortgages (in addition to my first one) to buy the new ritzy ghetto penthouse while keeping my old ghetto basement. I'm accumulating home equity while I make payments on 2 places, but it means I have no more disposable income.

If I took this salary and lived out in the country I'd be doing very well. In DC socking away for my future - it's just holding steady. At least in my perspective. :)

[cweaselle.livejournal.com]

Many people wish they could get days back. :p

I didn't do well with putting money aside for when I retired as far as I know, but that would be gone now anyways.

[topaz720.livejournal.com]

I will be working until I die, I know this, and accepted it a long time ago.

I have often felt 'out of place' next to friends who had more money.

I would like to be to be 'rich' enough to able to pay off my debt. I'm a long way off.

Of course, I would also consider myself rich because I have a roof over my head, a car, and a job. Compared to some, I'm a millionaire.

:)

[cyaneyed.livejournal.com]

give yourself an allowance for fun too v. not to sound pessimistic but what happens if you get hit by a bus tomorrow?

when you spend so much time working towards future, you can overlook the joys of now. mind you, i like stuffing money/investments away for the future, but don't get to 70 and think, finally, now i get to enjoy everything i worked so hard for. :)

gotta do as much quality living today as you can while you work for tomorrow, 'cause tomorrow may never come.

Re: :)

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Oddly my fun comes cheap - I've realized toys give short-term fixes, but my favorite things are interacting socially. I'll be in the club tonight - spending money I don't need to and having fun ;P