Affirmation vs. Advice

[vicarz]

I like the smell of magic markers, gas, petrol, ozone, laser printers, and sometimes glue.

Saturday I was engaged in a conversation where I was compared with another person famous for being impatient with, shall we say, perpetual victims. The speaker said they complained about a situation, and like I had just done, the person cut them off, said "Here is what you have to do," explained what he thought happened and her multiple possible courses of action - and then noted the subject was no longer worth discussing. I'm not quite that abrasive, but I'm highly sympathetic to anyone who is - you get tired of knowing the answers only to be told the same sob story over and over by someone who refuses to fix themselves or their situation. I said as much, and noted:

Gender roles!? When addressed with a complaint:
Men - propose a solution or course of action
Women - listen and empathize.
If those are accurate stereotypes, I'm more in the men camp.

Boring disclaimer - these are obviously generalizations and of course there are exceptions, and in the perfect world these distinctions will not exist in a way predictable based on demographics - but right now they exist and appear reasonable

Some answers are so easy, but nobody wants to hear them: get a degree or certification, get a new job before you leave the old one, reduce your expenses, work out more and eat healthier, leave your abusive partner, stop cheating, let it go and move on with your life...many times while your reasons to the contrary may be very compelling to you, they're simply wrong. You need to do what you need to do, and if you're going to spend all your time making excuses for the mistakes you're going to make why would I waste my time listening to you justify your own flailing symptoms of your unresolved issues? Suppose I listen and agree with you about how you're going to continue to spend money you don't have, cheat on your partner, eat fast food but no carbs, not go to school because you don't have time while you watch Lost / BSG - how does this help either of us? My lies or failure to point out your flaws only aggravate me and enable you to continue to fail life.

I just had a coworker come to me and describe how she is ready to settle a case based on surprise information that came out of a deposition of her witness. I listened to the description, and asked occasional questions. Each question threw her off - she answered "yeah" and then looked at me to see if I was ready to move on. When I wasn't (because she hadn't responded in a way in which could be the answer) she backtracked mentally or asked me what I asked again. In short, she was telling a pre-thought out story, but was not listening. Despite my multiple questions (based on problems with her story) and observations, she was dead set on telling her story the way she had it laid out. I figured she probably wanted to settle and had already arranged her facts and presentation to support her feeling. I had a reason to suspect this already as I know this is the case her opposing counsel files 1-2 motions daily, and she's lazily sick of responding. It is a lot of work.

When the story was all out, and she was waiting for me to agree that she had to settle - "I pulled a Ron," and asked questions which led her into answers which did not support settling. My questions showed that her case still met the legal test she needed to meet, if not as strongly and simply as it appeared to at first. I then proposed WORK, things she should or could do in response. Again I got that "Yeah," response, because being proposed a course of action and more work to do was not what she was looking for. She wanted to be talking to an audience who would listen, agree with her, sympathize, and perhaps support her when she tried to snow our management into thinking there is a reason to settle this case rather than do the hard work it will take to win.

I'm not a mind reader - I've worked with this twit for about a year and am finding her approach, weaknesses, and tricks very transparent. Once you recognize these problems with one person, another is easy - soon you're finding this pattern of behavior in people very quickly and writing them off. The quick impatient brush-offs get you labeled a snob. But really, while "Yes, your course of action/inaction is appropriate given your circumstances" may make the conversation go easier, do you really have a good prospect towards a beneficial relationship when you continue to talk to someone who thinks that is an answer when it so obviously is not?

For the record now that my competence level is increasing I'm happy for all my coworker's flaws. I can see myself rising to the top of this bunch and the supervisory position being a 15 in a matter of years. I could also just retire from this job as it is and simply be a respected litigator for being better than my peers, making my job easier to perform in the process. I don't mind winning because the playing field is weak - call that lazy if you will.

A good friend of mine is going to read the above and possibly scream out loud because they listened to me being wrong about SOME of the above and they continued to give me a sympathetic ear even why they told me that I was wrong and why. I refused to listen, and argued over and over again why although that truth was usually absolutely right, why this was different than the generality professed. Of course I was wrong - but I was not ready to act right yet because wrong was just so damn compelling and I was being too weak for what was right. I am grateful for that ear I was spared, and equally grateful that that ear never agreed or gave unconditional affirmation. When I was ready, I heard. So I'm not trying to be an extremist here, just giving general areas of emphasis.

The entire time I wrote this, my coworker sat on the phone talking to a friend going over the same story, seeking affirmation. Sounds like she's getting it from her phone-friend...

Comments

[bentrazor.livejournal.com]

Gender roles!? When addressed with a complaint:
Men - propose a solution or course of action
Women - listen and empathize.

This is more or less the entire summation of that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" book that was popular a while back, if memory serves.

And I agree, people who kvetch as a hobby are a pain.

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

I think the experience of being sad or upset is worth having and sharing. Not everything needs to be fixed right away. If people are annoying you with it, though, that is poor judgment on their part.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I don't entirely agree with what I said :)
As noted, I had a good friend listen to me, and I think there was a lot of value in just being heard. I tend to do a lot of processing externally - i.e. by talking about things to others. Somehow talking helps me sort things out - moreso when my audience hears me, though they may disagree.

[redsteve.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with you on that. Most times, I'm not so much interested in the listener suggesting a solution as I want them to listen to my thoughts and call bullshit on me if they think I'm kidding myself (either about the problem or the solution).

[vicar.livejournal.com]

True that - the support is nice, the bullshit detector invaluable. "Yeah, I can see why you'd feel that way. Unfortunately, you're talking crap..."

[pennan.livejournal.com]

Never did get an answer on that smell question.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

No wonder nobody likes lawyers! They're so damned evasive...

[lilkender.livejournal.com]

Sounds like she's getting it from her phone-friend...

There you have it... if you don't really want constructive criticism, talk with someone who doesn't care or doesn't know what you're talking about.

I don't mind winning because the playing field is weak
Go for it!

[cweaselle.livejournal.com]

I don't like when people try to get out of work because they are lazy. I don't mind if it's because their unfit, but it really bothers me when it because they are just lazy. I just tell them that I am mentally handicap & I can see that is the wrong thing. That probably won't work for you though.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure it won't work for me...

[cweaselle.livejournal.com]

I'd call you a smart ass except for 2 reasons. I don't plan on going to have nothing better than swear words & it would kind of agree with you. Anyone who thinks *you* are brain damaged are even more damaged than me. ;p

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

Sometimes people do just want a sympathetic ear. Might be best when you feel a bit of advice coming on, to first ask, "Do you want to know what my advice would be?" That way, the person with the problem can adjust themselves from vent mode to receptive-to-solutions mode. Or could even say, "No, I just want to get this off my chest."

[djpsyche.livejournal.com]

PS, my patience starts to wear thin when it's always the SAME problem, and they never do anything to fix it. A one-off moan probably will get the listen-and-sympathise response, maybe with some advice at the end of it.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Not at all a bad a approach, though most anyone who knows me already has teflon for skin. Plus, when you ask the question - it's a giveaway that you already don't approve of their situation somehow. Now they're mad that you both don't agree with their victim's plight AND that you're condescending.

Trust me - I know so many ways to lose this game! There's no winning!