Been a while since I did a masturbatory school post

[vicarz]

Yes, I'm already checking for grades even though I know they aren't posted - hell exams are still going on. I won't know for 4-6 weeks, possibly longer.

I'm in the odd state where I don't have much to do at work. Not so odd - I don't care. I've been slugging away so hard to so long, and getting no recognition - oh and a continuing flow of degrading comments and treatment by my bosses boss (politics) so I can hardly feel guilty. I'm not one of those super driven folks, despite appearances. I don't work because of some burning need to achieve, and I don't freak out if I'm not producing something of importance. Those are good feelings, but I'm happy just to be. Right now I'm collecting "keys" in Diablo (on-line gaming, older that WoW and probably geekier).

I'm looking at the bar, the 2 month prep course, and hearing various reports from people who say it was hell on earth. One consistency I've found with the bar-is-hell-on-earth people is they didn't work while going to law school. I suppose compared to the leisurely pace most students live during school makes the bar prep seem monstrous. Me, I'm used to the pace - bar prep might be a vacation compared to working full time in employee relations and litigation and going to class at night, studying on the weekends. On the other hand, even the girl who kicked my ass in law school while working more did most of the bar prep course without working. Some of her friends (mostly from the top 10% of the class) worked through the entire thing.

I've computed my time off in all categories (A/L, comp, travel comp, time off awards) and I have about 28 days vacation NOT INCLUDING the 240 hours use or lose annual I still have in the bank. Dood. I could take a straight 6 weeks off for bar prep and still have 240 u/l in the bank at the end of the year. This means I have NO EXCUSE not to take the time off for any bar prep pressures. Hell, I may take time off for gym workouts - otherwise the 5 nights a week at 4 hours a day will kill my non-weekend workout time completely.

My friend is now in a big firm, and oh...the big firms moved their starting salaries from 145 to 160 for first years (most first years don't usually get the bonus). She is on course for billing 2800 hours. You bill what...75% of the hours worked, if that? Do they all cheat, coz 2080 hours is a 40 hour work week with no vacation, sick, or holidays. By comparison, I make about 2/3 that with a planned 2080 year, which includes 160 hours vacation, 104 hours sick, and 10 paid holidays - all in that 2080 hours. This pleases me. Walk through the math with me, if you will:

Rich lawyers don't make more than I do, they just work more!
Rich lawyer:
2800 hours billed a year / .75 = 3700 hours worked or in the office, give or take, or about 70 hours work a week.
$160,000 salary / 3700 hours worked = $43 hourly. Throw in bonus and bens and say $50 hourly for fun.

Gov lackey
Me, I also make about $43 hourly - only billed for 2080 hours anum, of which I don't work 160 vacation, 80 holiday (plus 104 sick hours which accumulate forever if I don't use them - not included in this analysis) = 1840 hours actually worked (unless I get more time off awards or snow days) for an average of 35 hours a week.

Rich? Same hourly rate overall, I just work half the hours.
Reality check - I had to work 12.5 years in the gummint to get this pay and leave, though the leave increases in 2.5 years. In the private sector you move up much quicker, so I'm really comparing a starting rich-lawyer salary to my journeyman level salary.

Comments

[lilkender.livejournal.com]

At my small firm they include nonbillable hours on their timesheets, which counts towards their annual hours. I don't know where you're getting those numbers but associates here have about 1800 - 2000 hours bill+nonbill for last year. Only two partners worked over 2500.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I think that's high - but not different than what I've heard from many others. I also recently visited our career center to double check my facts against their recruitment experience/knowledge, and it came out the same. The thing they did was suggest people work more in small firms than is obvious.

http://www.internetbar.org/Article20.html (1st p)

In 2000, " The ABA Career Satisfaction Survey (2000) showed 46.8 % of associates at large firms nationally work more than 60 hours per week,"
http://www.pardc.org/Publications/lf_interim_report.shtml

The firm will award bonuses only to associates who billed 2,000 hours or more. All associates who billed less than 2,000 hours will receive only a $10,000 bonus. “The firm will continue its practice of paying an additional bonus to those associates . . . who have worked hours significantly exceeding target.” An additional bonus of $10,000 will be paid to associates who billed at least 2,300 hours, and another $10,000 bonus will go to associates who billed at least 2,500 hours.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/12/20/should-law-firms-tie-bonuses-to-hours-billed/

This one was fun - caught billing 3200 hours a year
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/11/10/3200-hours-a-year-you-gotta-be-kidding-me/

I'm not saying I wouldn't work in a firm, just that right now - until I find data or an offer that shows something significantly different - I'm better off in gummint.

[lilkender.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear you like where you are.
I guess associates at large firms have more competition for becoming a partner. Working more hours shows dedication.

I'm on salary for 35 hours a week. I guess I'm paid well for the number of hours I work, but I'd rather work more and get paid more. Not to 3200 hours though :P

[anarcha.livejournal.com]

Here's my hours (billable+pro bono) for the last three years. This does not include independent research, mentoring, committee participation, time-keeping, client development, CLE etc, which probably sum to another 300-500 per year.

end Dec 2004: 2300
end Dec 2005: 2300
end Dec 2006: 2700 (very rough year)

I don't cheat on my hours. I never bill for time thinking while in the shower, or running. I generally don't bill for the time I spend reading and responding to e-mails at odd times in the morning or at night. I don't bill if I worked on something, and then realized it wasn't necessary.

If I have a "normal" workload, I generally get in between 8:00-9:00 am, and stay at the office until 7:00 pm or so, with an hour taken out for the gym. When I get home, I usually work for another 1-3 hours in the evening. Depending on my workload, I'll put in anywhere between 4-8 hours working from home on the weekend.


I doubt your friend is on track for 2800 hours. She's probably billed a bad month or two, and she's extrapolating that out to 12 months, not allowing for the month or two that will be very slow, during which she won't bill anything. She's also not allowing for the fact that she'll probably take 4-5 days vacation (during which she won't bill) and she'll probably bill less than 40 hours per week during Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.

If I were just to take a heavy month, and say "I'm on track to bill [x hours times 12]", then I would be trying to convince you that I was on track to bill 3600 hours. And that's just ridiculous.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

That may be the case of her 2800 - monthly extrapolated. I note it couldn't have included her bar prep time.

I'm glad you don't bill me for thinking about you in the shower, or vice-versa.

[anarcha.livejournal.com]

Also, hours billed can be a poor measure of how demanding a job actually is.

I had one horrible week a few years back where I was in the office from 9:00 am to 3:00 am or later every night, but billed less than 30.

Basically, I sat around all day, with nothing to do, and then got a call about 5-6 each evening, with an emergency assignment that needed to be handled that night.

[ellipsedream.livejournal.com]

you just have to be a government lawyer! half the hours, twice the pay! :)

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Er? I is a gummint lawya - half the hours, half the pay (by my count above, falacies included)

[ellipsedream.livejournal.com]

:::DOH:::

what department of gov't? do they pay different in different areas... like agriculture vs. narcotics? or state vs. federal?

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I'm in USDA/FSIS - but I'm not an attorney, just a "litigator." You don't have to be an attorney for this work with this group - we just represent the Agency in employee appeals to MSPB, EEOC, or arbitration hearings (union).

Not sure about other branches, but they seem to be in the same grade system as low as 9, high as GS-15. I don't know a thing about state.

[blindtillnow.livejournal.com]

GO CORPORATE.

$135,000 / (2080 - 80 for vacation) = $67.50 per hour worked.

-S

[blindtillnow.livejournal.com]

and yes. apparently i _am_ gauche for posting my salary in your LJ. feel free to lock the entry or something...

-S

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I don't mind if you don't - I don't put mine up directly, but it's really easy to figure out from my writings. Interesting note though. 35% is a fair jump for the loss of vacation time. My employment law experience is very corporate friendly. If only I had contract!

[anarcha.livejournal.com]

Heck, mine's public knowledge. Just go to infirmation.com

I very roughly estimate I get paid aprox $100 per hour worked (not hour billed)

[vicar.livejournal.com]

Your previous post gave you about 10 hours a day 5 days a week, plus avg 2 hours a day after work at home in the evening, plus avg 6 hours on the weekend. That's 50 + 20 + 6 or avg 76 hours per week.

[anarcha.livejournal.com]

Remember, that's a "normal" week. My weeks vary constantly, and widely. And saying I work that many hours a week for 50 weeks a year doesn't take account of federal holidays (on which I generally work less hours unless I'm under a crunch).

Overall, looking at my average hours over the past two years, and adding non-billable work stuff, I'd say I work 2800-3000 hours per year.

My income should be between $280k and 300k, depending on bonus. Hence the $100 per hour.

[vicar.livejournal.com]

I was skipping that step :)
See, that's the part I ignore in my analysis. Still, while I would consider more hours than I work today - I'm not so interested in the 70 hours a week set. I've got my kids to worry about, lil devils that they are already.