Accidental Troll

2-4 hours per hour of lecture?
Hmm...let's see...I assign a 30 page chapter each week and supplement with 2-3 online readings that have a print-length of anywhere from 8-28 pages.
Of course, only 3 out of 60 students seem to read the online materials. Still, for my 101 class, that means I am assigning, in effect, 4 hours of reading for 2.5 hours of lecture. Plus I request an online response to each week's selection...so probably anouther 10 minutes (when they should spend 30).

Now, for context my dear mister calvo, in my graduate program, I had to read a book a week, at least 2 reviews from JSTOR, and write a 1,000-1500 word review of each work. I'm embarassed to admit how long all that took for a 3 cr. class.

I'd agree that it looks like he wants you to read a lot, but is this a survey-type (for law) class that sets foundation knowledge or is it a specialized line of inquiry or technique? Either way, from what you put up there, it looks like he does it by book-section, so my guess is his lecture focuses on 1-3 aspects from the corresponding chapter with, what, 30% "new" materiial that isn't in the chapter?

Good luck...maybe you and other students can develop a outline group, where people trade off duty outlining sections of a chapter and sharing with each other?

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He is a lazy shit and he just assigns related chapters. Not pages, not cases, just chapters from a book. He then talks about loosely related material from a completely different perspective, and the mid-term had nothing at all to do with the book.

I lack the time to coordinate my study efforts with others. I literally don't have blocks of time long enough to get my hair cut or pick up groceries, so the idea of study groups are only cute when you don't work for a living.

Note the average page count for a 3 cr course in law compared to his 2 cr, and those readings are usually discussed in class and the material on the exam. The obvious answer is not to do the reading, but I'm scared than if I stop then it'll be on the exam.

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I hate to say it, having met some of these types, but it sounds like (a) he practices outside and teaches a little, so is using the book as an umbrella to make sure "all the topics" are covered. If you look at the first midterm, can you track what portion matches notes from lecture and how much is drawn from the book? To be fair--I had students who pissed and moaned about the first midterm because I asked for details and my lectures have been (trying) to tie broader themes together. [That said...not knowing who Augustus is nets you a goose-egg whether they read the book or not.]

If he is busy and using the book to cover information he doesn't handle in lecture the only real tactic you have is to outline/overview the chapters. I learned a method of doing so for my comps, the whole first 2-5 pages of the chapter, specifc sections ,etc.

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Nothing came from the book. The argument is why read at all, and the answer is fear that somehow this will change.

Understand this is law - we're reading and briefing these cases and sections. I probably am slower than most in this endeavor - I've been known to move as slowly as 10-20 pages an hour when preparing for class (see prior post about being slow and dumb).

Also - note the average. An asshole is someone that stands out as unusual in their behavior in ways that negatively impact others. His demands are far higher than what other classes require, and for less potential benefit. As such, he is an asshole.

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by the way - for one thing stop talking about how slow you are or less bright or any of that bullshit. I'm reading a 33 page chapter of a text that is used for (a) AP History in high school or (b) first-year survey history and STILL those 33 pages take me a good 1.5-2 hours to get through and that is when I am NOT taking notes to create a lecture. So- your 10-20 pages, you're handling the material as fast or faste than I am--and this is my second time using this book.

You're right...if he has the book because he *has* to have a book and it is noy actually *material* to the course, then he is a poor instructor. It also sounds as though he is a poor lecturer based on your earlier comments.

Occam's Razor: the book is the last thing you skim when preparing each week; the book is the last thing you dip into when preparing for hte exam because the odds are that it factors in negligibly. True--still a risk, esp. if asshole decides to pull something out of the book after your email...though i would hazard the odds are low. Why? Look at his answer: he isn't giving you focal points because he isn't reading the book either.

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jessiebeans.livejournal.com

In my core classes we never read from the book or was given lecture relating to the book. The information from the book was our responsibility. We were paying 2 grand a class and wanted our money's worth. I usually just skimmed and then flagged items of interest. especially in my bus law classes way too much info to cover in 6 weeks.

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Now, for context my dear mister calvo, in my graduate program, I had to read a book a week, at least 2 reviews from JSTOR, and write a 1,000-1500 word review of each work. I'm embarassed to admit how long all that took for a 3 cr. class.

You're not alone in this and I wasn't working.

Don't let this twit's tone make you feel bad, Jose.

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I'm not trying to make him feel bad, I know he can do it and admirably at that.
My best semester was when I had 3 courses at once and was pulling 30 hours a week as research assistant. I dread, truly dread, trying to do 4 more years of this but with a TA-ship that will require me to know the course material for students at the same time that I will be reading, researching, and writing for my coursework! I spent nearly every waking hour reding, noting, or writing for my 2 years of MA. Ugh.

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http://users.livejournal.com/_blackjack_/

eac: Don't let this twit's tone make you feel bad, Jose.

grymir: I'm not trying to make him feel bad, I know he can do it and admirably at that.

I think she was calling the professor a twit, not you.

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Thank you...

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Not you! Good lord! The professor!

:)

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hey - what can I say...used to being called a twit; have spent 2 hours today alone answering questions from MY students about what a thesis statement is for a paper due TOMORROW at 11:00. sigh. ...and I want a PhD?

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I want a PhD, too. For the fun of the research.

I just don't want to do anything for a living that a PhD leads to, or to um...kowtow to the advisors I'd have to kowtow to. This would be why I'm not doing it.

Rest assured that if the illiteracy of students becomes unbearable you can feed them to demons or something.

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greekphilosophy.livejournal.com

Ew.

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seth6666.livejournal.com

i'va always believed that whole two-to-four-hours thing is complete bullshit. professors should TEACH THE FUCKING MATERIAL, not have you teach it to yourself. if they really expect you to read 2 -4 hours a week outside of their lecture, they're not doing a very good job of teaching you waht you need to know. oh, and if i can get everything i need from a book, why the fuck do i need you professor asshole?

(sorry, this is a sore subject for me.. i'll rant about it for hours...)

-S

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I concur, only he things 4-8 hours per week is within his discretion.

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jessiebeans.livejournal.com

So basically you would be happy to sit there while the teacher is reading from the texbook while you sit there and listen?? I dont agree, and usually you learn what professors do what and what type of teaching style that they have, this is why most universities allow you to sit in on a class... personally I enjoy hearing stories and rants from professors.. then read/skim through thte book to get the "book" meanings down... maybe a class on skimming or outlining chapter readings help.. I can skim outline a chapter 40 pages.. in about an hour..

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You might be smarter than me. I cannot skim/outline 40 pages in anywhere near an hour. I may spend 20 - 30 minutes on one case.

Usually, the professor goes over the material in the book - they don't just read it to us, but talk about the case assuming we get the gist of it. They go over the arguments presented, and tease out how the arguments were weak / strong and why. They then link it to other general concepts and comparison cases.

Not this asshole, though.

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jessiebeans.livejournal.com

UGH now that sucks.. but our prof broke the case studies up and demanded that they were short, sweet and to the point. He showed us how to log cases we read about with the key words that will come up later to haunt us and then all we have to do is reference them. Key word to excel case number... it worked most of the time.

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When we're done, my case typically is summarized in 3 words to one sentence. I can recite much more from memory by that time, of course. I've never received any guidance on how to do this process - I've created a system that gets it done. Unfortunately, that system takes virtually all my spare time and has not yielded a top class rank.

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And how do you expect to have the slightest idea what I'm talking about in the classroom if you haven't done the necessary background reading to understand it?

Sorry, but that's a sore subject for me (a very sore one, actually, because I struggle against it every single week).

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What he said!

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rottenlilgirl.livejournal.com

Now, for context my dear mister calvo, in my graduate program, I had to read a book a week, at least 2 reviews from JSTOR, and write a 1,000-1500 word review of each work. I'm embarassed to admit how long all that took for a 3 cr. class.

Yeah its about the same here for my grad program. What have I learned here at grad school...to skim. I havent read an entire book cover to cover since I started here two years ago. I simply didnt have the time.

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Exactly. This was also for a "straight-forward" history seminar (or 4). I've been warned that the American Studies programs I applied to expect much the same -but- that you only keep up and succeed if you do ADDITIONAL reading outside on THEORY (shudder). Just researching articles and jounrals to create a theoretical context to then apply is eye-bleeding fun.

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rottenlilgirl.livejournal.com

Were did you study history? I am nearing the end of the MA History program at George Mason. Which American Studies program are you looking into?

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I can't speak for law school, but the normal expectation in regular graduate school programs is three hours of work outside of class for each hour spent in class. So a two-credit course would have an expectation of about six hours of outside work per week.

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I've heard of that on paper, but it has never reflected the reality in the classroom. Ever. I've gone to undergrad, grad (to MA level), a random AA, and now a JD...and that has never been the practice (though the rules do state such silly things).

Practice trumps policy when it is widespread, and as noted before - an asshole is someone who deviates from norms of behavior to the detriment of others. He's an asshole.

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Like I said, I can't speak for law school, but it's not at all infrequent for me to have to read a 300+ page book in a week for a class -- which is at least that much time when it's all heavy theory. You just have to learn, as I believe someone else mentioned, how to skim the majority of it and pick out the important bits to focus on.

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More likely I just rip this guy a new one in a shitty evaluation, and make sure I scope out what professors to take and not take without exception in the future.

I would never take someone who assigned 300+ pages in a week, ever, and I would slap anyone silly who failed to warn me about that.

We can't really skim - when you do, the teachers are quick to pick out small pieces of hte case to play with. What was the trial court holding, appeals? What was the counter-argument at appeal?

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I would never take someone who assigned 300+ pages in a week, ever, and I would slap anyone silly who failed to warn me about that.

Haha, don't ever go into a humanities/social sciences program then, because it's pretty much standard practice.

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Really? I have a BA and MA in psyc (I/O) and never had those kind of reading assignments. Odd.

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Perhaps I've run across that more because my program is centered much more in philosophy (and philosophers tend to drone on for ages before ever getting to a point, even when they're writing), but yeah, it's not at all uncommon in my courses.

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Nope. I see the same thing in Literature, History, and Cultural Studies...lots anbd lots of reading with the professor, more or less, starting out a lecture with "any questions from your reading" and then they either expand on a point -or- bring in elements of more recent scholarship or theory NOT covered in the books/articles.

Then again - you are studying law (Jose) - similar process for logical argument, different tools and techniques so I would expect a different focus and context development.

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kelowna.livejournal.com

The thing is... HOW _exactly_ did you expect him to respond to that question and layout? I'm not being snide. I'm curious... what would have been your ideal reply? Then think of how likely it is and how it would affect his ego and his experience and the class itself.

--kelowna

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