Yep. I've met a few of those particular sons a bitches. On the other hand, you can't correct what they will do unless you are in an equivalent position. After reading your posts for some time about this job, it sounds like you would actually be the one who *could* do some good with a promotion. Maybe you could build your own little section, and become the refuge for the nice folks? I work for the Division Manager who has done that, and he's fantastic, and any of us that are smart are fanatically loyal to him.